{ Nefertiti }
If you want to respond join this Yahoo Nefertiti group http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EncEg_Nefertiti/
Prelude to the Nefertiti study
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HIEROGLYPHICS~00000001
By their buildings and artifacts, we can know what their skills were and things they did.
By their mummies we can tell gender, what they ate, their health issues, average life expectancy.
But with out the text written in the life time of the Egyptians we can tell NOTHING of who did what, where they went. With out their text we can not identify who is in any painting or statue... especially when there are multiple images supposed to be the same person and they look NOTHING alike.
Any thing any scholar, Egyptologist or fruit cake states that any ancient Egyptian did (with out the text written in their lives), is NOTHING but hot air. Such unsupported speculation is not a matter of history but it is a matter of who can make up the most pleasing fairy story.
ONE chapter should be placed in front of every study / book on Nefertiti and that chapter should contain every hieroglyph that mentioned her. From what is WRITTEN, the rest of the book can be measured.
a) Identify any hieroglyphic that actually mention Nefertiti
b) Who found it
c) Where is it now
d) What does it say about Nefertiti
e) Where is an photo of this hieroglyphic
If you can identify any Nefertiti hieroglyphics
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CUNEIFORM~00000001
Cuneiform 1. Wedge-shaped. 2.a. Being a character or characters formed by the arrangement of small wedge-shaped elements and used in ancient Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian writing.
Here our topic is Nefertiti, but it does not matter which topic you are talking about Cuneiform has absolutely NO bearing unless the text of the Cuneiform gives information about your topic.
NO Cuneiform has any thing to do with Nefertiti unless the text mentions her, and then ONLY the portion about Nefertiti is important. The rest is irrelevant.
a) Identify any Cuneiform that actually mentions Nefertiti
b) Where is it now
c) What does it say about Nefertiti
d) Where is a photo of this Cuneiform
If you can identify any Nefertiti Cuneiform
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IMAGINATION~00000001
- NO evidence. Information based on imagination
The words used when people promote what they have imagined as some kind of factual information: apparently , believe, conceivably, could, IF , may have, maybe, might have, must have, perhaps, possible, should, speculate, theory, think, thought, would have... Like The Wizard of Oz a story is created out of pure imagination.
If we read in a letter where Martha talked about meeting a tall man and the letter had a date stamped on it in the winter. In a journal of George Washington, he wrote about meeting some girls while ice skating ... we have information that would allow us to speculate that George met Martha while ice skating. This would be wild speculation, but when any one just makes up a hypothetical event with NO supporting evidence at all, such is not speculation based on evidence, it is nothing but wild imagination, based on nothing but the desire to make up a story.
Such people are not archeologist, Egyptologist, scientist, scholars nor even novice researchers. People who invent information out of their imagination are fiction writers.
People who imagine fictional information and then promote it as facts or history... fill in your own blank.
- Pink will be used to mean pure imagination or show us where to find this information
.
/ Controversy / Pure concoction
* Black ... just repeating what has been written or said.
* Blue will come later, it is information that is actually verified.
See how many of the questions or following assertions, you can change the text color to blue.
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NOTES~00000001 Multiple Names
When people have multiple names, to be less confusing I use search and replace to change them all to one single name.
When there are kings that are numbered, I always use the name with the number to replace extra names. It also helps arrange kings in the order they came.
Amenhotep04 = Akhenaton / Ikhnaton, husband of Nefertiti.
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NEFERTITI~00000001 -> Nefertiti picturesBefore I continue with the multiple suggestions of Nefertiti's parents, I need to varify a couple things.
a) In this famous painting in Tut's tomb, on the left is Tut's wife
b) 2nd from the left is Tut alive
c) 3rd from the left is mummy/dead Tut
d) Far Right is Aye?
CLICK ON THE PICTURE IF YOU KNOW ANY ANSWERS
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NEFERTITI~00000002 `Ay
a) In Tut's tomb painting is the father of Nefertiti giving the open mouth ritual?
b) Was Ay/Aye a priest. Why would he give the open mouth ceremony?
c) What hieroglyphs in Tut's tomb identify the people in the large painting?
Reply to: encyclopediaegypt@gmail.com
Ay Next King?a) If Ay was giving this ceremony would that mean he was the next king?
b) Is there any hieroglyphic that mentions both Nefertiti and Ay in the same writing?
c) Provide any ancient text that identifies Ay as the father of Nefertiti.
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Fletcher = a British "Egyptologist" who claims she identified the mummy of Nefertiti. In her documentary Fletcher speculates Nefertiti out lived her husband and it would have been Nefertiti who would have preformed the open mouth ceremony for her husband.
The famous painting in Tutankhamun’s burial chamber depicts Ay at the "opening of the mouth" ceremony performed on the mummy and the mummy case by priests.
a) Other than Tut, identify another king given the open mouth ritual.
b) Is there any text that Nefertiti preformed the open mouth ceremony?
c) Any reference the giver of the open mouth ritual was the next king?
NEFERTITI~00000003b Open mouth ceremony
a) Amenhotep04 married the daughter of this servant Ay Right?
b) Ay gave the open mouth ceremony to king Tut.
c) Amenhotep04 was the father of king Tut.
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NEFERTITI~00000004 Nefertiti Queen after her father was King?
Given all these !!!Assumptions!!!, Amenhotep04 The father of Tut, Amenhotep04 The husband of Nefertiti, Ay the Father of Nefertiti, Giving the open mouth ceremony means they were the next ruler, Nefertiti did give the open mouth ceremony to Amenhotep04
IF all these assumptions were a fact then
:When Ay gave the open mouth ceremony to Tut was dead AND Amenhotep04 (Nefertiti's husband) was already dead (because Tut was the next king to take his father's place)
Ay (because he gave the open mouth ceremony to Tut) means he was the next King.
For this boat to float, the line of rulers would have been
#1 Amenhotep04 #2 (his son) Tut #3 Ay (who gave the open mouth ceremony to Tut) #4 Nefertiti
If Nefertiti gave the open mouth ceremony to any one as the next ruler, it would have to had been her own father .. USING all the presumptions of the "experts"
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NEFERTITI~00000005 Fletcher's 'proof' Nefertiti outlived her husband
Fletcher's theories based on fact or presumption based on imagination?
Amenhotep04
= The husband of NefertitiTranscript: To prove it, Joan needs evidence Nefertiti outlived her husband.
Amenhotep04
died in year 17 of his reign.His cause of death remains unknown. What matters more is who buried him. His tomb lies 4 miles from Amarna, facing the rising sun.
- Fletcher: I believe it would have been she who led the funerary rituals
, the funerary rites, as Amenhotep04's chosen successor and heir.
- Certainly as his co-regent, she would have fulfilled the criteria.
-She would have been the proper choice....
- As her husband's heir, only
Nefertiti could have conducted the sacred opening of the mouth ritual that gave him immortality.
a) What proof has Fletcher provided Nefertiti outlived her husband
b) What proof does Fletcher give that Nefertiti led the funeral rights of her husband?
c) Why would Nefertiti become ruler, dozens of kings die and were replaced by males?
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NEFERTITI~00000005 Nefertiti was dead when her husband died
a) Give any ancient text showing Nefertiti gave one command or ruled
b) The husband of Nefertiti had multiple wives and children, how could she be the only heir
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NEFERTITI~00000005 Tut could not be king unless his father Amenhotep died first
a) If Tut was the son of Amenhotep then Tut (not Nefertiti) would have been the next king. Tut did become king right?
b) Does Fletcher provide 'proof' that Nefertiti was even alive after her husband or does Fletcher provide nothing but her own imagination?
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NEFERTITI~00000006 `Tey mother of Nefertiti
Tey (wet nurse not to be confused with Tiy, Amenhotep04 mother)
When we think of the queens of the Egyptian rulers, the thought comes that this is a girl who married an important ruler, but I would guess different.
The father Amenhotep04 of is supposed to have had MANY chicks. Fletcher's documentary " 500 consorts and concubines, the vast harem of Amenhotep03"
Unless the kings just had all these girls around to clean the rug, there were no birth control pills. 500 consorts and concubines, the vast harem of Amenhotep04 would have had many brothers / sisters.
These potential heirs of the thrown did not wait until their fathers were dead before they took wives.
Aye was not a king, but if he were wealthy he too could have had a dozen women. There was no social objection. Multiple wives was as common then as multiple pairs of socks today.
- Aye's second wife (Tey) was
Nefertiti's wet nurse
- Tey was
Nefertiti's mother.
a) What Egyptian text identifies Tey as the wife of Aye
b) What Egyptian text states Tey was the mother of Nefertiti
c) Are there any good painted pictures of Tey or is she in a picture here Nefertiti Pictures
NEFERTITI~00000006 `Tey mother of Nefertiti
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NEFERTITI~00000007 Nefertiti daughter of King `Tushratta
Nefertiti was the daughter of King Tushratta
Nefertiti is supposed to be the wife of Amenhotep04 The son of Amenhotep03, son of Amenhotep02, son of Amenhotep01.
a) How could there have been a king Tushratta to be Nefertiti's fathers when there are four Amenhoteps identified as kings?
b) Is Tushratta identified as a king
c) What ancient text mentions him
d) Are there any good images of Tushratta in color?
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Nefertiti was the daughter of King Tushratta
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Nefertiti was the daughter of Yuni
a) Who was Yuni
b) What ancient text is written about her
c) If Nefertiti was the daughter of the wet nurse Tey it would be difficult for her to be the daughter of Yuni?
d) Are there any images of Yuni that still have decent quality paint?
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NEFERTITI~00000009 `Tiy `Childhood
(Joan Fletcher) : Nefertiti's quest begins on the west bank of the Nile in the ruins of Malqatta. In this once lavish palace.
- Joan thinks Nefertiti may have spent her childhood in Malqatta.
At its height, Malqatta was the most spectacular palace in ancient Egypt, home of the pharaohs.
- Joan
thinks Nefertiti grew up in this sprawling compound.* The father of Nefertiti's husband had 500 consorts and concubines, the vast harem of Amenhotep03
- Queen Tiy (Tut's mother) took Nefertiti out of a harem for her son.
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a) Is it Fletcher's imagination or facts? Give the ancient text that reveals information about Nefertiti's childhood?
b) Give the text that states Nefertiti lived in Malqatta
c) Facts or a concoction from Joan's imagination? What text reveals Nefertiti was brought up in a harem and picked by Tiy for her son?
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Transcripts from TV (If you live in the USA, you can usually order these videos from your library)
These transcripts are great to have to read along with when you are watching the videos. You can print them out, pause the video and enter your own notes.
http://encyclopediaegypt.com/NefResNum.htm A numbered transcript from the "documentary" Nefertiti resurrected. The numbers can be used for references in discussion/debate
http://encyclopediaegypt.com/nefertiti_lost_dynasty.htm Nefertiti Lost Dynasty numbered transcript
http://encyclopediaegypt.com/NefertitiLostDynasty.htm Nefertiti Lost Dynasty transcript from the TV program on National Geographies
Replies to: encyclopediaegypt@gmail.com
